Aliens

Well, do they exist?
And I don’t mean the stupid kind that kidnap you in your sleep and fly around in huge flying saucers. I mean the kind that are somehow alive but live on a planet that isn’t Earth.

I’m positive that there’s life out there, but I don’t think there’s anyone near us who is not only alive, but also sentient. It took us a few billion years, so there’d have to be an Earth-like planet formed at least 4 billion years ago around a Sun that is capable of supporting life for a few billion years (long enough for the necessary evolution to take place) Which gives Earth-like planets only about a 10 billion year window to form, and only in the presence of the right sun, and they have to be fairly close to us for it to matter, and so many ifs…

So if there are, they’re probably really far away, and any of them close to us are most likely not sentient.

I think there are, somewhere. There must be, our universe is perfect for life.

I wonder if those aliens are wondering if we exist, and if they realize how horribly unadvanced we really are.

you sure about that there? i heard a lot of compelling arguments that the Earth is actually only around ten thousand years.

I do believe there COULD be aliens out there, I mean, there is a vast span of universe with billions of planets and all it takes is 1. I don’t think we’ll see them any time soon, however.

a) the Earth is 4700 millions years old. Period. Any geologist can prove anyway that the whole ten-thousand-year old Earth shit the Bible says is just that, bullshit. And sorry if this offends any hardcore-christian in here, but well, it’s true.

b) What makes you assume a (sentient or not) extraterrestrial lifeform MUST be a carbone-based lifeform like us, and can not survive in different environments, with different stars (or without them even), and with a different structure?

So there.

PS: “Our universe is perfect for life”

pffffffffffffffffffffffffft.

Even the slightest fart from a star, among other cosmic hazards, would instantly carbonize the Earth. Do you call that ‘perfect’? We are just lucky to be in a rather peaceful part of the Milky Way. <_>

The Universe is deadly, at least for us.

That’s a good point. However, if we assume that there are only a few different types of life, and each of those require perfect conditions, then the chance is still pretty small.

Maybe there’s a type of life that can survive at any temperature, though. If that’s true, then there’s a much larger chance of them being close to us, since the star is completely factored out of the equation.

Well, I don’t say anything about proximity.

Let’s assume worst case scenario:

There are 8 (10) planets in our solar system.
There are 100.000 millions of stars in the Milky Way
Let’s assume one of every 3 stars has a planetary system, with, say, 5 planets per system.
Now, let’s account for the fact that there are millions upon millions of galaxies.

I say chances ramp up pretty quick. As for them being near… that’s a whole another story.

Ah, but Tim, one thing you’re not factoring in, is the fact that things still need energy to live, and where does that energy come from?
On earth at least, all energy comes from the sun, so it’s still needed to support life, regardless of whether the creatures need it’s heat.

That and the whole gravity thing, there aren’t many large bodies not orbiting a sun (Or at least, there shouldn’t be, theoretically.)

That energy can come from inside a planet, just for example. If the creatures don’t generate heat, then the temperature won’t matter much, will it?

It’s really not true. Look at it from the Christian (or otherwise Jewish) point of view. Science can’t disprove God, seeing that God made science, and if he’s “all-powerful” as the Bible describes him, why would he be limited in such a way that he can’t make something seem older than it is? Evidence of the past like dinosaur skeletons being a specific distance beneath the dirt isn’t proof of the past–who knows what could have happened in the middle time, and who knows God didn’t just put the skeletons there himself? Like I said…when you’re talking about an all-powerful God, things don’t have to happen for there to be evidence of it. I believe it says Adam was created as a well-aged man…so why couldn’t the Earth have been created pre-aged?

It’s nearly irrelevant, but it doesn’t smash science down into a pile of poo, and it shows the possibility of the Bible to still be correct.

Guy Perfect said something along these lines just a few days ago:
“Rocks weather over time. I have a rock that is bigger than another rock. Therefore, the evidence shows that the smaller rock is older.”

Okay, rephrase: the Universe is effectively 15 billion or so years old. The only two options are: God made a 15 billion year old system 6000 years ago, or he made a 0 billion year old system 15 billion years ago.
Who gives a shit if it’s because God lied or because it really is so? It’s still exactly the same thing. It’s 15 billion years old, and we’ll operate within that knowledge.

PS "Rocks weather over time. I have a rock that is bigger than another rock. Therefore, the evidence shows that the smaller rock is older."
Yay for retards talking shit about things they don’t know anything about. Is he a geologist?
No, he isn’t. So he can cram it.

Yes, I realize I’m being excessively angry about this, but it pisses me off when people bring up God out of completely nowhere, thinking anyone actually cares, and then cite bullshit nonexistent evidence to back up their claims.

No, that’s the only evidence for god. Lack of evidence.
and I assume the rock thing was a joke, describing how evidence is not always true.

It was one of those bullshit sarcastic creationist things like “hey, peanut butter doesn’t spawn life, does it!?”, I think.

I also get angry when people have the urge to flame others for tying their religion in with the real world.

It’s completely irrelevant to the discussion of whether aliens exist or not. If you put God into the picture, then you might as well not even talk, because God can put anything he wants in the universe to fool us for no reason whatsoever, and so anything is possible. With God in the picture, you can no longer have logic.
With no logic, you can’t discuss anything. Which kindof derails the purpose of this topic.

Which kind of derails science.
Which is a bad thing.

I just realized this isn’t entirely true, since cold outer space cools planets’ insides, so I thought I’d correct myself. I suppose Phazon Yoshi’s point is pretty valid, then. But there’s still a much broader range of planets than just Earth-like planets assuming there are more kinds of life than carbon-based, water-dependent, DNA-coded life. Even if we take certain exceptions that exist or have existed on Earth (we had life that didn’t breathe, at one point, and we have heat-resistant bacteria now in volcanic vents), we might be able to make them live on some weird planets not similar to Earth.

Planets can generate their own energy. They are called Brown Dwarves. They have reactions in their core that generate energy, but not enough for it to generate light and therefore become a star.

Take for example Jupiter. 60% of the energy Jupiter has available comes from inside itself.

Jupiter is DAMN cold though (-150 C or so), at least according to google.
If you put Jupiter even farther away from the sun, I can’t imagine that being enough for any life form… though of course, my imagination is quite limited.

On a related note, can a planet’s spin counter its gravity? In other words, if we make Jupiter spin fast enough, will it not crush us to death when we stand on the equator?

I’ll jump into this. I think aliens exist. It seems hard to believe that they don’t. As CFX said, the chances that they do exist are pretty high. And IF one of those species that could exist did have the ability to travel throughout the galaxy/universe, I would doubt that they would visit us. We’re on the edge of the Milky Way galaxy. It seems to me that Earth is what we consider rednecks, just on a galactic scale. Of course, all that comes from reading tons of Science Fiction, so my opinion is probably as skewed as they get.