is jesus real?

King metroid… Do you think that you could try to show some respect?
Sure, I made som fun of God and Jesus, but we all know that we are monkeys that can swim, hold out breath, and have lost most of out fur.

I’m not forcing anyone to stop beliving in god, and you should’nt try it either. Is there anyone here at P2D that has tried to force you to belive in god? No. Can’t you al least try to behave?

EDIT:

The Chistianity comes from the jews, who had their own religion looooooong before that. Jesus came to save them, like the son of god had done like five times before that. The only difference this time was that he did’nt go berserk and kill all the romans. Therefore, he could’nt be the son of god and their savior.

If that happened around 2000-2100 years ago… how could the Bible then be older than the Homo Sapiens?
And what proof do you have that anything has been fullfilled?
And why can’t anything like that happen here in modern time?
And why is the part of the bible where Jesus tells Judas that he should do as he does official? It has been found, but but will it ever be a part of the bible?, and why did someone rip out that page(es)? (Probably not. The bible can’t be faulty)
Do you know the history of the Chistanity?

I have so many questions, but no priest that I have spoken to can answer any of them. That is strange since it’s their job to know as much as they can about the Christanity. And yes, i’ve read the bible a few times. I’ve read the Koran too. Am I bad person if I read the Koran?

Actually, if I recall correctly, he never said that. He always said, “I am whoever you believe me to be,” when asked, every time.

Also, Sniper, it doesn’t necessarily not contradict itself. What you get are only selected books, not all of them, and there may still be some contradictions and problems. Go to any extreme atheist website and you’ll see :wink:

There hasn’t been any flaming yet, so I’ll leave this open still. I’m guessing that a huge ton of flaming is coming right around the corner, though.

Yes, but if you go any extremist website, what do you get?? The same thing, over and over, and over. People who say there is no evidence against it havent done any research, and if you beleive the earth is only a couple thousand years old… 2 words. CARBON, DATING. If that’s not enough proof for you, then your just being stubborn.

There always seems to be someone who believes a little too strongly either way…

I think in the long run, if there was a god … he would be more appreciative of us if we spent more time being able to take care of ourselves and less time preaching for a placebo effect. More time on our obsessions, less time on zealousy. More time on our family’s … less time in church. Its not hard to tell whats right and whats wrong, "gods message has been recieved " so to speak… what was once a life of evil vs good is now a life of crime vs common sense. Humanity has succeeded in reducing mass killings and what not, and we’re “getting the idea”.

All thats left is to move forward, concentrate on what you’re going to do with your life. If you happen to become really good at something, keep doing it … you might create or do something that evolves us as a race even more, or you might inspire someone else to do so, or you might even create someone who does so. This seems to be our circle of life. My point is that we already know why we shouldnt kill or hurt each other … we dont need to believe in something unseen to stop us from doing it, and in fact it seems to be holding us back now. Wars are erupting as a RESULT of religion…

Well, I meant an atheist extreme enough to make a website on the subject. Some have a few good points here and there. Well, good luck finding those few good points through all the pages of repetitive rambling <_<;;

The point about the Bible not being all the books still remains, though.

And carbon dating, though I believe to be very accurate, is always attacked by Kent Hovind, and then of course others use his arguments and believe him. So it’s not stubborn, just not doing much research yourself, which is exactly what I’m doing with it as well. There are just two sides :wink:

there are 2 books in the bible, one of which, the old testiment, started WAY before 2000 years ago, so in that you are wrong… the new testiment, though, is all about telling what jesus did, and basically, just letters to the different churches, etc…

if god created everything, what created god? nothing. god was created by humans as a way to control. why do priests talk about jesus. is it because they like talking about him, or is it so loads of people will listen to them? and the answer is… no, because it is a metaphorical question. i have no idea why they talk about him.

Your absolutely right. Religion was created give us morals. Now that we have those morals, it’s no longer needed. But due to Jewish and Arab extremists, using religion to debate what land is theirs, when it’s actually the US’s fault for taking the land from the Arabs, and giving it back to the jews. Religion starts wars these days, and that’s why the middle east will be destroyed eventually.

I thought of that when I was six. But in my sight, it has no effect on the aptness of truth. How you feel when you sleep must be the same as how you feel if you don’t exist–when you sleep (and don’t dream), the I-sense in your brain is completely shut off. If your I-sense is destroyed, you don’t exist as a person anymore. “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord,” says the book about half of you like to dislike–what I can see this saying is that if the I-sense is destroyed, the “you” that is your personality is no longer in this “realm of existence”, as it were.

I must say there are quite a few different written records of Jesus’ miracles, as a final note.

Fact: Historically, there was a man named Jesus who acquired a following of men and women and preached what some have dubbed ‘the good news’. We have historical documents of his life and execution(and not just the bible).

Where faith comes into the equation is whether or not you believe that this man named Jesus was born of God or of Man, or if you even believe that a God exists.

The nature of faith is that it cannot be proven, for if it becomes fact there is nothing to have faith in. Faith requires a risk, and part of that risk is in not knowing, no matter how devoted you are, if you’re right. Those that ask others to prove God’s existance are asking the impossible.

Even though it’s a comedic novel/radio play/movie, the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy has some very insightful things to say on this matter, and I shall now quote it:

God says, “I refuse to prove my existance, for proof denies faith and without faith, I am nothing.”

“Ahh,” says Man, “But look at this creature, the Babel Fish! Simply insert it into your ear and it feeds off of brainwaves, instantly translating any language into something understandable! It is impossible that something so incredibly useful could have happened by chance. Therefore, you must have created it–which proves your existance.”

God replies, “Oh, dear, I hadn’t thought of that,” and promptly disapears in a puff of logic. Man then goes on to prove that black is white and gets run over at the next zebra crossing.

I, personally, don’t count “you can’t prove he’s real” as a valid reason for disbelieving in God. An equally invalid argument is “You can’t prove he isn’t”, as both are equally true. It always boils down into a matter of personal belief and personal experience in the world. As for the validity of the bible, that’s another thing that must be taken on faith. Every document in the bible is taken from, at the very least, a tertiary source. This means that everything was copied from a book that was copied from a letter that someone wrote several decades prior to the copying. MOST of the bible is assembled through even more convoluted pathways.

Now, if you don’t want to read any of the interesting stuff and just want my opinon on the whole thing, you can read here:

I believe that the species on this planet evolved from simpler life-forms. I believe that the universe is billions of years old. I also believe that it was all created by an all-powerful God who revealed himself to the Israelite people and manifested himself as the man Jesus approximately two thousnd years ago.

But due to extremists, you cant beleive both. I know christians that think all catholics are going to hell because they dont beleive it their way. Religion is based on indoctrination. People believe because they are told to. Their parents beleived because they were told to. And so were their parents. But nobody knows exactly where the bible came from. Sure, it might be quotes from people who met jesus, but has obviously been exaggerated over time to create what it is today. There’s just too much stuff the bible doesnt bother explaining. How do you explain evolution if the bible is true. You cant, because we have concrete evidence of the age of the earth, and the evolutionary path’s that creatures have taken.

The earth couldnt be only a couple thousand years old. So X. And adam and eve?? Where did African, Asian, Arabic, and european people come from?? And a talking snake?? Pssshhhh. And a poison apple?? Sorry homie, apples didnt exist when the world was created. In fact, nothing lived on land when the earth was created. We didnt get there until plants did, and we werent we. We we trillobites and crap. So no, how do you explain that??

Why didnt the dinosaurs, and EVVVVVERRRRYYHTINNNGG before them get on noas ark?? How could a flood kill underwater creatures??? If the earth is only a couple thousand years old, when did the mass extinctions happen??? Why would god send a meteor to wipe out 99% of all his creations. Why would he let humans destroy his so called planet?? Where did mars come from?? Do they have their own god??? What about the planets in the andromeda galaxy?? If we’re his chosen planet, why will an asteroid hit us in 2030??

Because there is no god. There is no equivalent exchange. Life is cruel, cold, and nothing is certain, not even tommorow. Religion is for comfort and control. Nuff sed.

BTW, if you didnt read that, you dont know what you missed

I’m not positive you read what I said.

But I can clarify some of what YOU said; extremists do not represent the entire religion. I’ve said for a while that you shouldn’t judge a religion by its followers, you should judge it by its tenets and beliefs. The core beliefs of Christianity stand in treating others fairly and in paying respect to the percieved Creator–all the rest is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter that I believe the world was NOT created in six days and others do; what matters is that we believe in God and in treating others fairly, with love and respect. There are those who take the bible down to the letter, believing its every word in a literal sense, and that is perfectly acceptable. It is also perfectly acceptable to believe it in a metaphorical sense, as I tend to.

Redhalberd, you have a very narrow view of life, and a very narrow view of religion. Seeing as we haven’t found any life on Mars as of yet, there’s no particular reason to believe that God has many worries about the planet. As for planets in the Andromeda galaxy, well, the same goes for them; we can worry about it when it becomes an issue. Right now, for all intents and purposes of this argument and every other action of the Human race, we live on the only inhabited world in this universe. Now, I don’t personally believe we’re alone ‘out there’, but that is irrelevant, because nothing any other plausible species does affects us until we meet them, which obviously hasn’t happened yet, so they can be ignored for this argument. There is not an asteroid coming to hit our world in 2030. This particular planet has a much longer lifespan that that. The reason that God lets us ‘destroy’ this world, as you put it, is because he knows we can put it back together, and because this world belongs to us. God gave us this world to do with as we see fit.

When you’re dealing with an all-powerful God, concrete evidence is mushier than the soggy cereal I had for breakfast last May. Of course, if he’s all-powerful, he is capable of placing evidence of things that never existed, and he is capable of creating things pre-aged (ie. the forbidden tree mentioned in early Genesis).

Also, if the world is going to end soon, there’s really no point in thinking about slow planetary deterioration.

Narrow view of life, mabye so, but mabye because im right. If you believe in god because it’s good, then your using morals to justify your belief. Then why not beleive in some other religion?? God teaches people to be good, but people like me see reality, not fiction. And yes, there is a meteor coming ot hit us in 2030. Can we stop it??? Yes, the technology exists this very day. But have we built anything to stop it??? Nope. And this world belongs to us?? Nope, if that’s what we beleive than we’re fucking hipocrits. People invade other contries all the time, with little consent for “their contry”. If we found a planet inhabited by other life forms, we’d probably invade it too. And we can put it back together?? I may have a narrow view, but i have something your arguments lack, knowledge. When the methane is the ocean is unfrozen by global warming, we’ll all die. It’ll be over, period, so no, we cant put shit back together, and knowing our damn government, they wont come into action in time. By the time they realize we need to do something, it’ll be to late. So no, god will save us. He didnt give us any planet. We’re lucky that’ were even we. We could have easily been wiped out before we even existed as humans.

So no, god doesnt care if we die, because he cant care, because he doesnt exist. And we will die, were already doomed. Humans are corrupt and selfish, that’s why. They dont care about their kids futures. Thats why one of the following will wipe us out.

Epidemic:the worlds population is far to large, with airports, a new supervirus (birdflu for example) could easily spread to every country in the world in days.

Meteor: We’ll probably be dead before this, but in 2030, there is a meteor that has an 80% chance of wiping out all life on earth.

Nuclear war: Israel…nuff sed.

Global warming: We’re already dying from the heat (california), but wait till the polar ice caps and methane melt.

Meh, i could go on. THey had a neat show on teh discovery channel. My point is, the world is cruel, and there is no certainty. People only beleive because it makes them feel safter.

Please don’t sound so “I must be correct and there is no chance that you are correct.” That’s perhaps the best thing that can bring about flaming. I see the way you said “maybe because I’m right” as “I am right and that might be why”, not “I might be right”. Tact is useful for avoiding harmful conflict.

As for that later statement of “I may have a narrow view, but i have something your arguments lack, knowledge”… And you also seem to lack something he has: forethought. Your “knowledge” of the rumored 2030 meteor crash is incorrect knowledge according to my memory of documents I once read. (See that? I didn’t say it is definitely incorrect–I said that my memory says it is.)

Caring about your kid and not somebody else’s is classifiable as selfish.

Redhalberd…you really don’t know what you’re talking about. I can’t say anything more than that, because I’ve gotta go in a minute or so, and that’s not enough time to type out the massive incorrectness in your post. Your ‘knowledge’ is nonexistant, and your justifications are incorrect. I don’t believe in God because my parents do, or because it’s “good”, I believe in God because it’s what I percieve as the right thing. And that’s what everything is, perception. I percieve that your arguments are stupid because of my experiences; you percieve that my belief is stupid because of your narrow mind, narrow perception. You automatically declare something pertaining to religion as incorrect and wrong without taking the time to examine it.

Well I think this:(no, i wont go off topic)

Maybe Jesus was a man who looked upon human kind and thought: “Dude, this people kill themselves for a crumb of bread, I bet that they would be friendlier if someone gave them something to believe in…wait!, I?ll do that role!”. So he told them he was the son of god to make them follow him and start valuing life a little more. The Bible was written to help control human beings…Example: The seven deadly sins…u cant really not commit them, so all souls are doomed and go to hell…if there really are a Hell and a Heaven. And it is true what Tenka said about the 6000 ways of saying: I believe in god and that stuff. Also it is a fact that priests seek to control people.

Well im sorry it came off that way. I dont think of your perception as stupid, i think of it as illogical. Common sense goes against religion. If you had never heard about it, you wouldnt beleive it. That’s what tells me there is no god. If someone was born alone on a deserted island, and never came into contact with another human, he would die, and go to hell. He never had a chance to learn the ways of god. Is that fair?? Its that justic?? No, it’s not. Im sorry i sound so “your wrong”, but i do have my facts straight. There is a meteor coming, and while there is no guarantee it’ll hit us, there is a 80% chance. I merely used human extinction as an example for why god doesnt exist. Beleive in god may be the right thing to do, but it’s not the necessary right thing to do. It may help some people, but im not one of them.

wait, what are the 7 sins again?

Redhalberd, you are calling people dumb, when you yourself can’t even spell hypocrite, do I really need to elaborate there?

To All- And what is there to destroy Israel? The US could destroy them, but thats it. The UK possibly could, but none of the Arabic nations have the coordination or guts to take on Israel.

I believe in the Bible in the literal sense, as in that God meant exactly what he said.

If carbon dating disproves the Bible, then what about those Bible-hating liberal “scientists” that declared that carbon dating doesn’t work beyond about 1,400 years?

Well?

If you want proof that the Bible’s prophecies are true, take this example. The Bible states that the Promised land of Canaan would never be peaceful for long. And look! Omar and his terrorist buddies have been hard at work getting their butts kicked all over the Middle-East for over fifty years by Israel.

Also, the Bible predicted that “the Son of Man” (Jesus) would be rejected by his own people, which happened. In fact, some of the people here are proving the prophecy for me right now.

The Bible predicted wars with Babylon, Assyria, and the scattering of the Jews by the Romans.

When God stopped the sun to allow Joshua to finish off an enemy army, records show a several hour gap- a day far too long- that “scholars” acknowledge and do not understand. But I do.

EDIT- Pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrathfulness, and slothfulness.