New Adventures of the Artifacts of the Month


#121

THIS SOUNDS BEAUTIFUL. The fact that we are moving forward again is fantastic. A new demo is something I’d never think would happen.

That^^ Hey Candy baby is that list on the front page still up to date?


#122

as far as im aware, yes


#123

Quick thing.

Also this is definitely something to look at.

EDIT: Edits and edits.

EDIT2: And edits and edits.


#124

I think there are some inaccuracies (other than not including the frigate) since it hasn’t been updated in like 5 years and plenty of lost resources have been found in that time. I’ll look through it this weekend and make some corrections.

The Metroid Prime you made is fantastic, and I’m really glad you want to do something like it for P2D … you should know that we have 3 different versions of the Parasite Queen so far (first MetroidHandler+072, then two completely different ones by Slothien483). The original is too small, very few people saw or remember the second one, and the third was slightly controversial for some reason. I have no doubt that the fourth design wouldn’t be gorgeous … it’s just that there are some other giant bosses that haven’t gotten as much love :stuck_out_tongue:

My engine’s not ready to do the frigate justice. :\


#125

Troid I was just thinking of the Parasite Queen because I know we would need that for a demo sooner than any other bosses. What would you have me do? I’d be willing to commit to any bosses or enemies. Also, what’s the status of the Beams? If they aren’t done, for some reason I have an addiction to making Beams. So I would be happy to do/redo/finish those too.


#126

does anyone have the old map of the frigate?


#127

While I see your point to an extent, I greatly disagree with a lot of it.

But first off, Woolsey didn’t do the IV-II conversion. Nitpicking, but I think you missed out on a much more poignant comparison - fantranslations of FF6 versus the official one. The official one took a lot of liberties and had inaccuracies, sure. It completely changed the atmosphere and tone of lots of scenes. But it worked for what it was. The original script was full of references to Japanese culture and other things that wouldn’t translate or carry over well. Meanwhile, the fantranslations (and future official remake translations) attempt to stick so literally to the original script that they feel clunky, stilted, and totally foreign and alien at times. Look at something like Earthbound - absolutely MILES away from Mother 2, but hailed as one of the greatest games of all time due to the localization, rather than just a straight translation.

(Meanwhile, “You spoony bard” was just censorship resulting in meme-inducing unintentional comedy.)

But to diverge from silly little nitpicking about terms and translators, I think the overall goal is the same here - we don’t need to directly translate Prime. We need to “localize” it the way Woolsey or Owsen did it. Keep the spirit and message, but change the method of disseminating them.

Now I’m the one being longwinded and ranty.

ANYWAY!

For instance, the concept art - obviously, it had influence beyond just art galleries. Look at the conceptual designs for Samus and the Space Pirates, now compare them to the ingame versions from Prime 2 and 3. The notch on the Varia suit visor, the bipartite lower mandibles of the Space Pirates, etc - the sequels have been increasingly drawing from the unused conceptual art rather than the actual ingame models.

Does that mean we should add a notch to Samus’ visor in the front view? It was obviously at one point intended to be in the game, and it was in all three sequels - couldn’t we argue that it’d be true to the developers’ intention to include it?

(Yes, a visor notch is an insanely miniscule and nearly invisible detail. It’s just an easily-referenced example.)

That said, other things were obviously drawn and either removed or never used in the first place… for a reason.

That concept art of Meta Ridley depicts him as a giant mecha being piloted by a Space Pirate. That goes so incredibly far away from the actual ingame version in design and battle style and would also divert the plot of the game massively - as the entire mission is kicked off by her chasing an easily-recognizable (but still upgraded) Ridley off of the Orpheon! And while Magmoor does seem like maybe it should have a boss, let’s think about the implications here - first off, we’d have to rewrite tons of log entries about the quarantine room’s purpose and the Titan Project, and then we’d have to invent a fresh boss with almost no idea of how it fights or how to balance it. We’d have to find a whole new way to fight Thardus too - if he was in Magmoor, the Thermal Visor would be completely useless. Depending on where in the game he was placed, we could have to arrange for different beams and missile combinations, and try to balance the fight around those as well.

It seems like an awful lot of work for something that would just alienate the “casual” fans (“Why is Thardus in the wrong place and what the hell is this ugly four-armed thing?”) who don’t pore over every released piece of concept work.

Sure, we can fix mistakes and things cut for time constraints: the Space Pirate corpses on the wrecked Orpheon are equipped differently than the actual Pirates onboard the ship, for instance - they reused the wrong model; plus the corpses onboard the ship while it flies have a different head texture than the ones anywhere else in the game, including the live ones in the same area. We might be able to find a way to add in Kraid without him breaking continuity and wrecking the balance and flow of the game (how about if he’s an optional post-game superboss?), since the only reason for his removal was lack of time. Bugs and glitches needn’t be replicated and we could fix one-time scannable enemies like the Ice Shriekbats.

But adding original bosses and massively reworking the structure of the entire game to accomodate “cool things I found in the art gallery”?

No. Just no.


#128

^Point, he has…

…well for what it’s worth, I find Samus more Samus-ey with the visor notch… but maybe that’s just me. I’d include it if it was up to me.


#129

Reposting this for reference, not meant in a snarky way-

The big point I mean to make is that if something can be improved (and still be in keeping with the rest of the game), we shouldn’t dismiss it just for being different.


#130

no seriously, the map


#131

I agree with the sprites bit and the mouse aiming, and like Troid I agree with the general gist. However, I think focus should be put not on remaking resources we already have, but getting a WORKING COPY first. We can focus on remaking the sprites later. It’s possible to free bounding boxes from the sprites, so it’s very possible to change Samus’s bounding box and where, on the sprite, the bullets are generated without actually changing the sprites, themselves. This could result in some weird-looking stuff, but the engine and game flow need to be the main focuses, not the resources.


#132

If Troid doesn’t have it you could probably recreate it from the demo.


#133

neat, that’ll work


#134

I have several versions of the frigate map. I think DestroyerF followed the design very closely, but I’m not 100% sure on room sizes and such, so recreating it from the demo would be a good idea so that we can see what was used in practice.

Sometime this weekend (hopefully later today) I’m going to do some work on the official sprite list(s), dig up relevant resources, and answer other questions here. But right now I’m going to go play videogames because I’m a lazy bard. :stuck_out_tongue:


#135

I think the big thing that needs to be looked at when it comes to the handling of things in Orpheon is the PQ boss. I think we’re trying too hard to emulate the layout of the 3D boss, rather than the feel/idea.

As it currently stands with the boss in the background, everything becomes extremely vague. The entire fight would just be floaty and unfulfilling.

What we should do is copy the idea: hanging boss, vulnerable head, moving shield. This can be done in an enjoyable way by having the PQ hanging from the side - think Kraid. Then add in multiple vertical platforms, and have the energy shields moving up and down. You line your shots up on a vertical basis, rather than a horizontal basis.


#136

well the first big issue is WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH SAMUS?!

is she changing? is she not?
shorter?
taller?
BUSTIER AND DUMBER?! (awwww yeah, other M, so good, such a DEEP character)

but seriously, we shrinkin her or what?


#137

Why not just go all-out and make an HD 2D game? 256 pixel tall Samus? :sweat:


#138

The problem is that dodging things vertically is a lot harder than horizontally. Few things are more frustrating than getting knocked off a platform and falling down to the ground as you were about to get some good shots off.

I think it would still work like this as long as we clearly indicate when the shield is in the “front” (i.e. an obviously lighter shade) and make the laser dodgeable from anywhere (a couple of platforms on either end could probably help with that).

Plus it’s a lot more dramatic visually, not that that’s the priority.


#139

Dodging vertically would make it a lot more challenging… as easy as Kraid is in Super, it is SO ANNOYING when he knocks you onto the floor. And Phlakey boy that picture does capture a pretty epic scenario which I look forward to experiencing one day. I think you making the queen so big is what made it stick out to me.

Pom, all I can say is all I know how to do is sprite, so I may as well be spriting something.


#140

i like this, lets make that happen

also are we changing samus? this is rather important for, yanno, EVERYTHING

poll time? i think its poll time