The Ideas Topic

I recently read this article (original posted in a topic here by Timmeh), and I think it would be really cool to have a systematic way of discussing ideas and forming plans.

At this time please read the article if you haven’t done so already. The rest of my post will still be here when you get back. :stuck_out_tongue:

Basically, this topic is here to discuss all aspects of P2D. You can discuss things elsewhere, of course, especially when there are more relevant topics, but try to remember to post a summary in here at some point. Once we get enough going, we can start circulating a Word document or something.

Some guidelines:

  • Anyone should have a say, but the team members should be making the final decisions.
  • There actually aren’t really any “final decisions”, but keep in mind that people will have to agree on changes and such.
  • Don’t force your point or idea if others don’t like it. You can always bring it up some other time. It also helps to phrase things as questions.
  • Be open to new ideas. We can have heated discussions and all that, but please don’t let anything get personal or go too far. This is meant to be fun.
  • Be detailed and thorough.

So I thought we could start out with an obvious topic: Flaahgra. I’m sure this has been discussed to death at SCU, maybe even here, but it’s probably covered in dust by now wherever it may be.

If Flaahgra is sprited as tall as he (she? it?) is in Metroid Prime, it will be off the screen. However, I don’t think this would be a problem, as long as the battle is still interesting. We already have a Flaahgra sprite that would fit the screen, but the spriter isn’t around any more, and it doesn’t have any slashing animations and such. It is really good, though. What do we do with it?

I can see a rotating room being a possibility for the actual battle design, but an approach I think would work pretty well would be multiple levels, with platforms along the sides. Two mirrors on each level. The question then is where the morph ball slots go. We could leave all four along the bottom (two slots on the outside with tunnels, two slots in the middle without any tunnels) and simply have mirrors spread around in upper layers. I think that would be kind of cool.

So, I obviously won’t be around to moderate this topic. Feel free to let the discussion keep going into more than just Flaahgra. I suggest bringing up specific enemies, bosses, locations, cutscenes, upgrades, puzzles, etc. A good place to get these would be the Artifacts of the Month topic, and possibly also the Open Source Engine topic. More general (and controversial) things could be discussed, too, like custom sounds vs. MP sounds, or what sort of new content can be introduced that wasn’t in MP.

I’ll stress again the importance of details. Even something like an elevator hologram counts–do we make them all have individual scans like in MP, even if they all say the same thing? How many different shapes of elevators are there?

The overall goal is to have a gigantic, detailed document of all of P2D. Have fun. :smiley:

Ok, I’ve got a good Idea for Falawhatever fight, I’ll make a quick mock-up when my computer gets back up.

I think maybe use the old sprite and have someone add to it, trying to keep within the original look.

Anyways, My main concern right now is the rooms that contain Half-pipes. I’m worried about how those are going to work.

Random Idea that will never happen: I think P2D would be much better it it worked around a 360 degree aiming system. That way you’d have full control of where you could shoot, like the Prime games, but with the 2D exploration we all know and love. I have to say that what you guys have right now with the 8 direction, when paired with Prime elements, it just doesn’t work. A good example of this is the beginning part of the demo with the shields and the scanning. It feels so awkward having to position yourself all weird just to aim and shoot those buttons. If it had a 360 engine, it would be a piece of cake and I wouldn’t think much of it. Point I’m trying to get across is Prime had a lot of sections with precision aiming, which simply isn’t possible with 8 direction aiming.

Sucks knowing that nothing can be done about it though.

I remember an older topic where some people had an argument about 360 degree aiming, and almost everyone was opposed to it and wanted to stay with 2-D Metroid style. I was thinking, maybe there could be an aiming key like the R-Button in prime. You could aim 360 degrees but not move, and people who want 8-direction could just not use it.

For the half-pipe rooms, the half-pipes could be faded out in the foreground until you walk in them, and if you switch to the morph-ball, then instead of moving out of it you move up it.

… And shouldn’t this go in “Ideas and Comments”?

here’s my two cents

anything unclear?

You could also make it so Samus can walk but not roll over the tunnel entrances.

I thought for half-pipes we were simply going to do something like this:

I made the layout of the Tallon Canyon room in TIVNav, which includes a half pipe. Should I upload the file?

Maybe I’m just not thinking of locations with more difficult half pipe situations.

Also, 360-degree aiming is something I would definitely support (or at least not mind), but it seems to be a little too late to change it.

360 deg aiming decreases the 2d met nostalgia/feel

If you’re talking about MetEngine, then perhaps so, BUT if you’re talking about the open-contribution engine being developed in the “p2d open source engine” topic under the Progress forum, then it isn’t too late by any means. This engine is in its very early stages, but I believe that so long as the contributors keep monitoring the topic and helping out cough, that engine has more potential for progress than MetEngine seems to.

Anyways, I for one would support keeping 8-angle aiming and including some sort of alternate functionality for precision aiming. If the spriting for this would be too much of a hassle - it might look strange, but: We could stick with the 8-directional aiming sprites, simply round out to the direction closest to the direction of the cursor, and let the bullets define the actual directional precision (as in the bullets don’t move exactly along the path the aimed arm looks like it would make them, but rather directly toward the cursor from the tip of the arm cannon).

I think the biggest issues with halfpipes in P2D may well be in the programming, and especially for the morphball. Some very impressive and realisticish physics code would be necessary to make halfpipes work well. I know it would/will most certainly be a big challenge to me, should I ever come to attempt the programming for it.

I’m also for use of 360 aim, as long as it’s with a button press no move thing, like in the original.

This didn’t go anywhere fast! D:

Here’s a new topic: List as many environmental details as you can find in Tallon Overworld. Actually get out MP and walk around to do this.

Examples:
Dark rock surface.
Light dirt surface.
Mossy surface.
Gigantic wires connected to elevator, stretching through other rooms.
Little working fans.
Little broken fans.
Nest of sap sac vines in ceiling.
Strange Chozo Emblem.
Hanging vines.
Mountains in background with waterfalls.
Some rooms have a layer of dark clouds.

Keep it going until you think it’s complete. This will help the Artifacts topic a lot, as I (mistakenly) decided to stick almost all of such details in one nebulous item called a “Tallon Overworld tileset”, which isn’t even named appropriately.

A lot of it’s already been done, but there hasn’t been any way to categorize it from my current list.

Yeah…I’ll definantly do that. I love looking at all the little details Retro added for no reason whatsoever :smiley:

About the half-pipes (a little late, I know), is there any way to get it so they are only solid/in the foreground while you are morphed? That’s the only way I can see some rooms working, e.g. the room where you get morph ball.

couldn’t we just… y’know contact retro and ask or something like that?

Ah, that would be neat, 072. Speaking of half-pipes, a list of locations they appear in would be good, so we can tackle this completely by mapping out those rooms. I think these are all, but I may have missed some:

Tallon Canyon (on the normal way to space jump boots)
Life Grove Tunnel (kind of a half-pipe – on way to x-ray visor)

Main Plaza (the missile expansion below the bridge)
Ruined Shrine (the morph ball room)
Training Chamber (after Magma Pool – bird-head bomb slots, an energy tank, Chozo Ghosts…)
Furnace (below bendezium floor, leading to ceiling maze of magnetic tracks)
Crossway (next to the Hall of the Elders – use ramp to spiderball to bomb slot to go up to missile expansion)
Reflecting Pool (near ice beam, lots of stone toads)

Phendrana Canyon (boost ball room)

Ventilation Shaft (toxic until the fans are on – is that really it for the Phazon Mines?)

gunna have to be really creative with some of these half pipes

Ruined Shrine:

So basically, you hop up on to the ledge and can walk around on it, but the halfpipe will be in the background (perhaps desaturated a bit?) and not affect you. When you walk by/through after acquiring boost, maybe a message will appear telling you what to do. And then you morph, and the halfpipe changes to its normal color and becomes solid.

Well, that’s my idea anyway. Nice to see you being active again, Troid. :slight_smile:

this is a good idea

I like it a lot! The room would be a lot larger, methinks, and flipped the other way around, but that layout and idea are perfect.

Larger? Really? I actually thought I was pushing it a bit with size to compensate for the fact that p2d!samus jumps higher than in Prime (And I hope it’s no higher than 5 tiles!). Guess it’s difficult to tell.

EDIT: And about Main Plaza… anyone have any ideas at all for that room? 0_o

Using the same background -> foreground technique with the halfpipe, the missile expansion could be placed on a “floating” two tiles, with the BG made to look like an indentation… but then there’s that bridge that goes over it which makes the entire room nearly impossible to transcribe to 2d…