E3 2010

Pomegranate · June 28, 2010, 4:20pm

I just saw that trailer earlier yesterday (today in my sleep schedule)… Coincidence… or fate?

Probably just coincidence.

MrGuest · June 28, 2010, 6:43pm

That’s still noticably source.

It doesn’t support Ambient Occlusion, Normal Maps, POM, Tesselation, Dynamic lighting, dynamic shadows, dynamic textures, layered textures, procedural destruction, everything is still brush based… etc.

And people wonder why nobody but Valve uses source.

Candy_Man_Criminal · June 28, 2010, 8:08pm

ERR… HAVE YOU SEEN THE CODE? XD

THATS WHY NOBODY USES IT
(BTW ITS BILLY MAYS DAY)

MrGuest · June 28, 2010, 8:11pm

Don’t forget the downright awful editor.

CloudVaris · June 29, 2010, 12:08am

Better than NILE or whatever Joint Ops used.

Pomegranate · June 29, 2010, 1:09am

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/So…tures#Materials

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Bump_map

Got me there… don’t even know what the hell that is

In all honesty what are tesselations going to do for you in a game?

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Light_dynamic

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Dy…Dynamic_shadows

Not sure what you mean by this, but I’m guessing you mean textures which change–I.E. animated textures, which are supported by source. Can’t find a link on it but I know–I’ve made animated textures in source before

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Patch
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Displacement see “Blended displacement materials (alpha channel painting)”

Again, I’m not sure what this means

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Entity

basically, learn your shit.

no wonder you thought it was so bad if you didn’t know it could support all those things

MrGuest · June 29, 2010, 2:07am

Pomegranate @ Jun 29 2010:

Zurginator @ Jun 28 2010:

That’s still noticably source.

It doesn’t support Ambient Occlusion, Normal Maps, POM, Tesselation, Dynamic lighting, dynamic shadows, dynamic textures, layered textures, procedural destruction, everything is still brush based… etc.

And people wonder why nobody but Valve uses source.

Ambient Occlusion

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/So…tures#Materials

VDK:

Self-shadowed Bump Maps create soft shadows and ambient occlusion with both dynamic and pre-calculated radiosity lighting. Source renders self-shadowed bump maps on both current and older-generation graphics hardware.

Ambient Textures != engine AO. It’s not the same. Not even close.

Normal Maps

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Bump_map

Fail. Bump maps and Normal maps are 2 entirely separate things. Bump maps simulate lighting effects. Normal maps are bakes of high-polly objects onto the low-polly: It is possible to have both.

POM

Got me there… don’t even know what the hell that is

Makes textures 3D. Cool as crap lol. Crysis uses it for ground textures, I’ll get screens.

Tesselation

In all honesty what are tesselations going to do for you in a game?

You would be surprised. I’ll dig up some screenshots from my own computer sometime.

Dynamic lighting

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Light_dynamic

dynamic shadows

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Dy…Dynamic_shadows

dynamic textures

Not sure what you mean by this, but I’m guessing you mean textures which change–I.E. animated textures, which are supported by source. Can’t find a link on it but I know–I’ve made animated textures in source before

layered textures

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Patch
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Displacement see “Blended displacement materials (alpha channel painting)”

procedural destruction

Again, I’m not sure what this means

Engine destroys objects on the fly, not on pre-determined cracks. Ex: Crysis: Shoot a tree, it breaks exactly where you shoot it. C2 has procedural everything (or so they claim)

everything is still brush based

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Entity

VDK:

There are three main types of entities:

? ? * Brush entity
? ? * Point entity
? ? * Node

basically, learn your shit.

Still a sucky selection and I will correct myself: ALMOST everything is brush-based.

no wonder you thought it was so bad if you didn’t know it could support all those things

Bold text is what I wrote in.

Pomegranate · June 29, 2010, 4:08am

Zurginator @ Jun 28 2010:

Pomegranate @ Jun 29 2010:

Zurginator @ Jun 28 2010:

That’s still noticably source.

It doesn’t support Ambient Occlusion, Normal Maps, POM, Tesselation, Dynamic lighting, dynamic shadows, dynamic textures, layered textures, procedural destruction, everything is still brush based… etc.

And people wonder why nobody but Valve uses source.

Ambient Occlusion

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/So…tures#Materials

VDK:

Self-shadowed Bump Maps create soft shadows and ambient occlusion with both dynamic and pre-calculated radiosity lighting. Source renders self-shadowed bump maps on both current and older-generation graphics hardware.

Ambient Textures != engine AO. It’s not the same. Not even close.

Normal Maps

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Bump_map

Fail. Bump maps and Normal maps are 2 entirely separate things. Bump maps simulate lighting effects. Normal maps are bakes of high-polly objects onto the low-polly: It is possible to have both.
In all honesty that page shouldn’t be labeled as bump map, but normal map. Bump maps are generally grayscale images to determine the height of objects while normal maps will generally use the red, green, and blue channels to determine height, horizontal facing, and vertical facing. What is demonstrated on the page I linked you is a method for normal mapping. A quote from wikipedia: “A normal map is usually an RGB image that corresponds to the X, Y, and Z coordinates of a surface normal from a more detailed version of the object.” If you do even a simple image search on google for “normal map,” what you will see is a lot of images that look very similar to the one in the VDK “Bump Map” page.

POM

Got me there… don’t even know what the hell that is

Makes textures 3D. Cool as crap lol. Crysis uses it for ground textures, I’ll get screens.

Tesselation

In all honesty what are tesselations going to do for you in a game?

You would be surprised. I’ll dig up some screenshots from my own computer sometime.

Dynamic lighting

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Light_dynamic

dynamic shadows

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Dy…Dynamic_shadows

dynamic textures

Not sure what you mean by this, but I’m guessing you mean textures which change–I.E. animated textures, which are supported by source. Can’t find a link on it but I know–I’ve made animated textures in source before

layered textures

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Patch
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Displacement see “Blended displacement materials (alpha channel painting)”

procedural destruction

Again, I’m not sure what this means

Engine destroys objects on the fly, not on pre-determined cracks. Ex: Crysis: Shoot a tree, it breaks exactly where you shoot it. C2 has procedural everything (or so they claim)

everything is still brush based

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Entity

VDK:

There are three main types of entities:

? ? * Brush entity
? ? * Point entity
? ? * Node

basically, learn your shit.

Still a sucky selection and I will correct myself: ALMOST everything is brush-based.
Well, it is true that most things in source are brushes due to its being derived from goldsrc (half life) engine, but if you take a look into the game world there are a ton of prop models, and it is easy to model props for source. Source also has the ability to create displacement maps for more natural looking terrain. Take a look: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Displacement

no wonder you thought it was so bad if you didn’t know it could support all those things

Bold text is what I wrote in.

Why does everything have to be put up against crysis with you? Things are done in completely different ways for completely different games released at completely different times.

What I wrote is in bold and italics.

Basically, let the crysis-source fanboy wars begin!

Syntax_Man · June 29, 2010, 4:24am

Unreal Engine 3 FTW!!!

PS: @Zurg: for reference: what is a specular map?

Candy_Man_Criminal · June 29, 2010, 4:30am

not by much xD

MrGuest · June 29, 2010, 4:45am

Determines how shiny a portion of the texture is.

Pomegranate · June 29, 2010, 6:07am

which is also supported by source. http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/$envmapmask

CloudVaris · June 29, 2010, 8:02am

But NILE is unnecessarily retarded, partially because it was made for an open-world warfare type game. And also partially because it’s just bad.
Whatever anyone has against Hammer, at least it’s not dysfunctional.

MrGuest · June 29, 2010, 1:19pm

I knew that one.

Fact is, source was an ok engine for 2004. Things have changed exponentially, and while they keep trying to hotwire support in, it’s just not up to modern levels. We need Source 2.0.

Phlakes · June 29, 2010, 2:50pm

So… how 'bout that E3?

Pomegranate · June 29, 2010, 2:58pm

What’s E3? xD

Oh was that what this topic was about???

Candy_Man_Criminal · June 29, 2010, 5:25pm

true, very true :3

Syntax_Man · July 1, 2010, 7:03pm

looks like source actually can get those kinds of results as demonstrated in the trailer…unless there is a source 2 o.O

MrGuest · July 2, 2010, 2:41am

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-…701365?type=flv

Dunno, looks exactly the same to me.

Syntax_Man · July 2, 2010, 3:57pm

Looks like Portal 1 or looks like the trailer?